Outlaws： The Steinbergs
Stream Summary
In this episode of Outlaws, Rebecca Hargraves and Devon Stack cover the 1987 Lisa Steinberg case in New York City. Joel Steinberg was a Greenwich Village criminal defense attorney who, along with his partner Hedda Nussbaum, used cocaine and crack heavily. Steinberg abused Nussbaum severely and neglected the two children the couple had obtained through an illegal private adoption. Six-year-old Lisa died after Steinberg beat her unconscious and left her on the bathroom floor for about 12 hours before anyone called 911. The hosts play archival clips from first responders, investigators, the prosecutor, a friend of Nussbaum's, a WNBC Channel 4 News report, and Bill O'Reilly's Inside Edition interviews with Steinberg and Lisa's birth mother, Michele Launders. They also discuss how the illegal adoption was arranged, why Nussbaum was never charged, and Steinberg's release from prison in 2004. The second half moves on to adoption more broadly: a 48 Hours story about a family who returned an adopted Russian girl, the Natalia Grace case, and Rachel Dolezal's upbringing. It ends with viewer paid chats about debates, conspiracy theories, and Bible translations. A power outage interrupted the stream partway through.
Key Topics Discussed
- Background on Joel Steinberg, criminal defense attorney, and Hedda Nussbaum, Random House editor and children's author
- The couple's drug use, Steinberg's abuse of Nussbaum, and the neglect of Lisa and Mitchell
- Missed warning signs: school bruises, a toll-booth operator's call to police, repeated Child Protective Services visits, and fearful neighbors
- The night of November 1, 1987, the delayed 911 call, and Lisa's death
- First-responder accounts from Officer Irma Rivera and Lead Investigator Bill Lachenmeyer
- The murder trial, Nussbaum's immunity deal and testimony, and Steinberg's 8⅓-to-25-year sentence
- Bill O'Reilly's Inside Edition interviews with Joel Steinberg and Michele Launders
- The illegal private adoption arranged through an OB/GYN's office, and the media framing of the case as a failure of the adoption system
- 1980s "Satanic Panic" claims and how sensationalism can discredit real cases
- Steinberg's release in 2004 and Nussbaum's later advocacy on domestic violence
- The hosts' conflicted views on adoption, including genetic relatedness and kinship adoption
- Rachel Dolezal's family background and artwork
- The 48 Hours story of a returned Russian adoptee and the Natalia Grace case
- Viewer questions: guilt-proneness research, the proposed Andrew Wilson–Candace Owens debate about Charlie Kirk's death, "debate culture," and Bible translations (King James Version, RSV Catholic Edition, Westcott and Hort)
- Technical problems, the power outage, and upcoming streams
Sources
Key Points of Wisdom
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[00:26:06] Bill Lachenmeyer (Lead Investigator):
"God forbid if you have an injured child. People stay in the hospital for days. You don't just walk in and walk out."
Context: The parents leaving the hospital was one of the first signs that made investigators suspicious.
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[00:41:34] Devon Stack:
"You had a lot of people sensationalize every story as like a satanic panic thing, and by doing that, they delegitimized the actual cases."
Context: Exaggerated conspiracy claims can drown out real, documented wrongdoing.
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[00:53:04] Michele Launders:
"When you're dealing with professionals, you expect them to be professional. Unfortunately, they were not."
Context: Lisa's birth mother on trusting the doctor's office and lawyer who arranged the adoption.
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[00:59:19] Devon Stack:
"You could have left the house and taken the kids with you at any time."
Context: On Nussbaum's responsibility to protect the children.
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[01:01:31] Devon Stack:
Adopting a relative's child, such as a sibling's, would likely create a stronger parental bond than adopting a stranger's child.
Context: Part of the hosts' discussion of the challenges of adoption.
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[01:17:10] Rebecca Hargraves:
"Yes, they have motive, but as we talk about all the time, motive doesn't equate to evidence... I need more than motive, as always."
Context: On conspiracy theories about Charlie Kirk's death.
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[01:18:25] Rebecca Hargraves:
"We have to look at a person's life and who they were when they were alive, rather than just totally rewrite their life story when something tragic happens."
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[01:20:57] Devon Stack:
"I've never watched the debate and been like, 'Wow, I never thought of it that way. My whole worldview just changed.' ... It's just a spectacle."
Context: On online "debate me" culture.
Hyperchat Highlights
Timestamps show when each comment was read on stream. Offensive wording has been left out and is marked [omitted].
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[1:13:00] Lake:
Great show. Thank you.
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[1:13:00] Monkey Ad:
What's the study called that shows whites have more guilt than other races? You've mentioned it before. Is this true?
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[1:14:10] Alchemist:
I appreciate your hard work, Devin. You too, Rebecca. You're truly required viewing for anyone new to these topics. I watch the show with my wife, though, so clean up the language. Love you though.
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[1:14:45] Romega:
Growing up in New York City in the '80s [omitted], I learned one thing: we are not the same, and no religion is going to change that fact.
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[1:14:45] Jacob Winkleman:
Good show.
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[1:14:45] Alchemist:
Curious to know Devon's thoughts on the current state of mainstream conservatism. We have Andrew Wilson e-begging his audience for $300,000 so we can fight the good fight by debating Candace Owens on how Charlie died.
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[1:22:34] Love of Division:
Here's something to help defray operational costs. [Quoted a comment by "Halo" listing serial killers (Ed Gein, the Boston Strangler, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, the Zodiac Killer, Son of Sam) in response to the "we don't do things like that" clip; remainder omitted.]
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[1:23:25] Drafwark:
[Comment playing on the "Nosebaum" name; omitted.]
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[1:23:54] Asterless 725 (name partially unclear):
Another example of [omitted] behavior. They never seem to stop.
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[1:23:54] Herp Derp:
A joke about the Marine Corps is that the only thing they prepare you to do when you get out is to be homeless. The funny thing is, it's only a joke if you treat it like one. Anyway, replay gang.
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[1:25:00] Churro's Great Adventures:
I'm already looking forward to autistically sharing your new book. You two keep doing what you're doing. Everyone else, share the show, share PatCon, share Defiant.
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[1:25:00] Fire Farter:
Before the power goes out again: thanks for the show.
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[1:25:00] Tomohawk:
Devon, the Saturday show was so disheartening. I wanted to find a cave in the wilderness and live out the rest of my days as a hermit. I knew things were bad, but damn.
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[1:28:30] Tomahawk:
Don't throw them or the [omitted] artist in the pit. Put them in the roof hole.
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[1:29:22] Angarad Celtic (pronunciation uncertain):
I feel sorry for Rachel Dolezal as well. Her parents made her crazy. [Remainder omitted.]
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[1:29:22] Snow Jewels:
Replay gang here. Love the show. First time dono. Keep up the great work. [Remark about Rachel Dolezal omitted.] Have a great night.
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[1:29:22] Night Train:
Every goddamn time.
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[1:29:22] Paulo Eagleton:
Devon: James Woods. (Identifying the actor Devon was trying to remember from the Holocaust miniseries.)
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[1:31:23] Simbi:
Speaking of Defiant, don't forget that watchdefiant.com is still valid.
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[1:33:20] Snowy Jules:
My husband just farted, and I think he shit his pants. Here's 10 more dollars. P.S. We are drunk. We love you guys.
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[1:33:34] John Calabar:
Have you looked into Westcott and Hort? They made new Bibles from a different source. Before this, all the Anglo world was using the King James Version; the new versions changed passages.
Hyperchat Contributors
- Lake
- Monkey Ad
- Alchemist
- Romega
- Jacob Winkleman
- Love of Division
- Drafwark
- Asterless 725
- Herp Derp
- Churro's Great Adventures
- Fire Farter
- Tomohawk / Tomahawk
- Angarad Celtic
- Snow Jewels / Snowy Jules
- Night Train
- Paulo Eagleton
- Simbi
- John Calabar